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Dubbing and the art of post-sync


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#1 Izo

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 04:15 PM

Is the language thing something that bothers you frequently? For example, in Amadeus does it annoy you that no one is speaking German?

I still love these films, and they're right at the top of Lang's output in sheer enjoyability as far as I'm concerned.

As for the dub, L, I see nothing wrong with the English. Deborah Paget, at the very least, was speaking English.

#2 Lawrence

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 10:54 PM

^

Normally it's something that my ears adjust to quickly, but it is somethiing that irks me a little. It might have a lot to do with German being one of the ugliest languages too, especially when compared to the melodic tones of yr average Indian. I tried the English dub for a minute or two but just couldn't in the end.


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#3 Moe Dickstein

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Posted 25 July 2013 - 11:55 PM

I always find the different approaches to viewing interesting. My boss recorded a German made TV miniseries on The Hindenburg, and it became soon apparent that while the actors had done the takes we were watching while speaking in english, every single actor (Besides the two American stars) had been revoiced by others, presumably to eliminate the accents.

It was the most irritating effect and after a while I realized it was the same as watching an animated film on some level. Even Stacy Keach who did his own voice must have done his lines on a dubbing stage because it didn't sound live for sure.

I'd have far preferred the original actors doing their lines in english (as they did live because you could lipread that they were doing it in English) with their accents. I presume the director also shot German language takes, and so you could have made an "accurate" version where the Germans were speaking with subs in German and the Americans spoke English.

But just as Lawrence can't stand English dubs, I always watch them when I have the opportunity. I find that when the language DOESNT match the lips then it's fine for me. I usually only do this for first viewing because what it does is let me just watch the movie without taking me out of the film by reading everything. Mostly after that for later viewings I use the original language with subs.
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#4 Lawrence

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 03:14 AM

Moe you must HATE Italian films then, since they never recorded sound until after filming.


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#5 Izo

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 06:19 AM

That goes for a lot of European films, even as recently as 2000's Werckmeister Harmonies.

#6 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:00 AM

That goes for a lot of European films, even as recently as 2000's Werckmeister Harmonies.

 

As well as Hong Kong films from the 1960s throught the 80s where many times they used different voice actors (for example you don't hear Jackie Chan's voice until Police Story 2.)  Many films from many countries are completely post-dubbed in the history of cinema.


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#7 cfkane

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:29 AM

R. W. Fassbinder did most, if not all his films this way if I recall correctly.


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#8 Izo

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 10:58 AM

We're veering off topic here, but it's an interesting discussion. It's always been a pet peeve of mine when "serious" film viewers complain about dubbing in my beloved Italian genre films, from the brilliant Enzo Castellari action movies to the grimy Sergio Corbucci spaghetti westerns to the Lucio Fulci horror flicks, as it seems utterly hypocritical to me when something like 8 1/2 receives endless praise and the post synchronization is completely ignored simply because the film is in Italian.

#9 Moe Dickstein

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 12:18 PM

What got me was the fact of seeing their lips move with English words, match sync, but so obviously be the wrong voice in every case, as I said if the sync wasn't there with the lips it doesn't bother me - it must be the "Uncanny Valley" of dubbing lol. I don't mind what Italian films I've seen because they're not matching the lips, like Salo which is the most recent one I've looked at. I know Fellini used to just have the actors count in some situations when he didn't come up with the words until post production.

I agree for a split this is a good topic for discussion round these parts.
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#10 Duke Togo

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Posted 27 July 2013 - 11:39 PM

Where did this topic split from?

 

My stance almost requires no thought, I just want the original intended audio track. The Italians will just do what they do, so I enjoy whatever they give me, but any kind of localization considered seperate from the original production should honor those original plans whatever they may be.

 

Going a little further back, as far as pre-production decision-time, I would prefer they do the best they can. If the status quo in the US were to attempt the original language if the material is not within these borders, say 3/5 times on average, then I might see the corny accented English approach as lazy. That isn't really the case right now, so something like Fincher's The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo comes across as perfectly natural.

 

I suppose there is always the exception to any hard rule I might establish, and approaches will vary.



#11 Lawrence

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 03:25 PM

^

It was split from the Fritz Lang Indian Epic thread.


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