Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 4 votes

184 - By Brakhage: An Anthology


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#21 clydefro

clydefro

    waiting for the click

  • MOC Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,056 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 May 2010 - 09:40 PM

Mike could use a breathalyzer that wouldn't let him boot up his computer when drunk.

#22 mikesncc1701

mikesncc1701

    Semi-Aquatic Egg Laying Mammal Of Action

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,119 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 31 May 2010 - 10:51 PM

Mike could use a breathalyzer that wouldn't let him boot up his computer when drunk.

I could use one of those for a number of things. :rolleyes:

#23 Lawrence

Lawrence

    Ere I Am JH

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,763 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sweden

Posted 01 June 2010 - 06:40 AM

Mike could use a breathalyzer that wouldn't let him boot up his computer when drunk.


But look how much discussion he provoked. Every cloud...

1 2r 3r 4r 5 6r 7 8 9 10r 11r 12 13 14r 15r 16r 17r 18r 19r 20 21 22 23 24r 25 26 27 28 29r 30r 31 32 33 35r 36 37 38r 39r 40 41 42 43 44 44r 45 46 47 48r 49 51 52r 53r 54 55 56 56r 57r 58 59 60 61 62 63 64r 65 66 67 68 69 70 72 73 74 75 76 76r 77 78 79 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 93r 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112r 113 114 115 116 116r 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 391 392 393 394 395396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 514 515 516 519 521 522 523 524 525 526 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 624 627 629 630 631 632 633 634 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 645 646 647 649 650 651 652 653 654 656 657 658 659 660 667 668 669 671 676 677 679 680 681 682 683 691 692 693 696 700 704 707 708 709 710 711 712 720 721 724 725 728 732 733 738 750 751 752 753 754 756 759 760 764 771 772 787 790 791 793 796 797 Eclipse 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 17 18 19 25 28 Criterion - 685


#24 masterofoneinchpunch

masterofoneinchpunch

    The Artful Dodger

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,368 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Modesto, CA
  • Interests:NBA, MMA, Movies, Setting fires.

Posted 01 June 2010 - 11:48 AM

... Building up a history of watching experimental cinema before viewing doesn't hurt either.


Don Juan, from the first site, used to mention this argument whenever he would discuss why some people did not get particular avant garde pieces and especially from this director (I think he was one of the biggest fans of Brakhage I have heard of). I do think to a certain point this is correct, but I tend to agree with Marcus's "but avant-garde on the whole is far, far less than its theoreticians would have it seem." Part of the reason is that since the art of avant-garde is less easy to define and more abstract it enables the critics to assign many, many different meanings to the material even if the artist originally intended none or something completely different (in many English courses I took I saw the same thing happen with literature and we were encouraged to come up with original readings of the readings :rolleyes:).

I did find it funny when Brakhage kind of mocks "narrative" cinema though. He certainly does not come off as one of the more Narcissistic directors as Duke points out though I don't quite get him being the most humble either.
Under Construction:
My Criterion Collection (408; I Own and Have Watched):
1-16, 18, 19, 20, 21(2nd), 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51(1st & 2nd), 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 61, 62, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86. 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151(1st), 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 164, 165, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 177, 180, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 201, 202, 204, 205, 206, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 237, 239, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 260, 263, 266, 267, 268, 271, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 297, 298, 300(2D), 301, 302, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 351, 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 378, 379, 380, 383, 385, 386, 387, 388, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 402, 404, 405, 408, 409, 410, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 424, 425, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 437, 439, 441, 445, 446, 447, 448, 451, 453, 455, 456, 457, 459, 460, 461, 462, 465, 470, 475, 476, 478, 481, 482, 487, 490, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 503, 505, 512, 524, 525, 526, 528, 529, 530, 531, 539, 540, 543, 556, 565, 572, 578, 579, 580, 586, 596, 650, 664, 677

Previous Editions: 2,
Eclipse: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 23, 26, 33

“Empty your bladder of that bitter black urine you call coffee.” – The Tick

My HK movie reviews
My Amazon Reviews

#25 Izo

Izo

    The Piano Has Been Drinking, Not Me

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,150 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 01 June 2010 - 03:49 PM

I love this set, and Dog Star Man in particular is a film I feel very, very strongly about.

Completely off topic, but to illustrate my point: I once spent a good 30 minutes crying after watching Dog Star Man with an ex who I fully expected to be enthralled. Not only did she not enjoy it, but she felt the need to riducule anyone who does.

#26 Pair

Pair

    Two of a Kind

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,046 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Tacoma, WA

Posted 01 June 2010 - 05:09 PM

No worries mike, 90% of the time I post here I am at least just north of a buzz. That's not even a slight joke.

For the record, I wasn't offended in the least.

The point I was trying to make is that Brakhage didn't make works for you. That might sound pretentious, like [smugly] "oh no my good sir, you only don't like it because you don't understaaand it." Which is one of the most douchey sentiments in the world, but the flipside of it is absolutely true:

You commenting on avant-garde cinema would be like me commenting on 24 or The Hurt Locker or either one of us thinking we can comment on Twilight. I mean, sure I suppose we could, but what would the point be? Obviously we wouldn't like it, it wasn't made for us. It was made for teenaged halfwits and 40-year-old lonely housewives with cobwebs up their cooters. Woops, guess I made a comment anyway. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, as I said, for only the group is art subjective. It varies person to person. Only for the individual does it become objective. Within my scope of taste, because of everything I am, the culmination of my experiences and based in general on the fact I love Brakhage, it follows that I should probably like Mekas too. Only in this is art appreciation objective and static. (Obviously, with some unexpected deviations that are exceptions but not the rule. Mostly based on unexplored psychological issues the viewer has with another very similar artists' theme. ex. I love X, it follows that I should love related artist Y, but I just don't. What I fail to realize is that I was touched as a child and that is a theme alluded to frequently in Y's work. So subconsciously I react against it. But all this is digression. Yay!)

Consider the phrase 'Know your audience.' I believe that in turn it is the audience's responsibility to know their art. I don't like 24 and The Hurt Locker, Twilight and Juno, but none of those were made for me. To comment on them too seriously would be an intellectual cul-de-sac. I would instinctively impose a criteria to an art form not made for that criteria. My criteria wasn't taken into consideration by that artist for even a moment during the creative process. It simply isn't applicable. Of course the art will fall short.

The same would be true for star-spangled-patriots or some twitty teenage girl to comment on Brakhage or Costa or Mekas or maybe even Bresson... The former would probably find them overrated or pretentious and the latter would probably find them omgboooriiing!!!1

In the name of altruism, some commentators will say they can find value in art they honestly don't like, but I think they're just trying to be nice.
Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#27 mikesncc1701

mikesncc1701

    Semi-Aquatic Egg Laying Mammal Of Action

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,119 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 June 2010 - 08:36 PM

^Nicely put. As Lawrence mentioned, I am honest when it comes to stuff like this. If I don't care for it, I'll say so. I'm not here to beat around the bush just to be accepted by anyone. That's the good thing about this place, it's nice to hear everyone's opinions and such. Besides, your explanation of Twilight's audience made my day. A lot of people say you shouldn't judge an entire film based on what you've just seen in previews or heard from other people, but regarding something like that, I can make an easy assessment saying that it blows chunks.

#28 Duke Togo

Duke Togo

    Evil mind, evil sword.

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,903 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 March 2011 - 06:55 PM

The Act of Seeing with One’s Own Eyes:
This film, clocking at a mere 31 minutes and 50 seconds, is the longest film I've ever seen. That feeling of holding back the inevitable regurgitation of a rather nasty stomach bug is something people like to throw around a lot as they watch something that is clearly faked. That feeling was real for me here, and I'm still experiencing a good bit of acid reflux. It started off ok, with these being real dead bodies it really commands your attention. Then the cutting begins, and I find out a great deal about myself. From my eyes hovering around the upper-right corner of the screen, to a complete disconnect to the wall of my living room, I found it very difficult to look directly at the goings-on. My innocence was slowly burned away as each body is carted from our view, now a literal husk of its former state. The sighs of relief soon proved to be those of a fool, with the arrival of a new corpse seemingly around every corner, this time delving into those procedures you had thanked them for skipping earlier. Frequent checking of the clock verifies that it has in fact been only two minutes since the last time I checked. I find myself frozen in an odd pose, eyes wide, mouth agap, my hands up in the air with fingers in a wretched clenching position, much like a corpse. The janitor is mopping up now, allowing my defenses to lower a bit, but it seems he is nothing more than an intermission of deceit and treachery. I start to think I have adjusted, been successfully desensitized, when a few harsh notes appear that prove me wrong. It finally ends as I ponder just how many times a day this medical staff performs these acts.

I wouldn't know where to begin on analyzing this film in any conventional sense. I am left only with a few themes rattling around in my head, of the nature of human beings, through society, to protect ourselves from the unpleasant realities of life. We bury eachothers loved ones, pay others to kill and prepare our food, and we only have to experience our own feces for a minute or two before it is magically whooshed away. We in effect remove all emotional aspects of anything difficult or unpleasant. One thing i noticed about the film is that Brakhage mostly avoids showing any eyes or faces, something I am sure probably lessened the emotional impact. That I might ever have to handle any of these things myself is the farthest thing from my mind. A shocking film, but absolutely an experience worth having.

#29 Izo

Izo

    The Piano Has Been Drinking, Not Me

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,150 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 02 March 2011 - 07:05 PM

That's one of the only films from this set that I haven't watched. I don't know if I can.

#30 masterofoneinchpunch

masterofoneinchpunch

    The Artful Dodger

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,368 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Modesto, CA
  • Interests:NBA, MMA, Movies, Setting fires.

Posted 02 March 2011 - 07:14 PM

Don't forget that Brakhage states on the DVD that if any children would have come through he would have lost it.

Of course being at a real autopsy is a completely different experience. On TV you do not have to deal with the smells or the crazy coroner (in Stanislaus County we had a guy with a German accent who liked to gross out people; note, I knew him but I never went to the autopsies though my Dad through his job had to).

I remember an Indian English teacher who thought that Americans were too removed from death and should have to (like he did) stay with the deceased in the house for a few days.
Under Construction:
My Criterion Collection (408; I Own and Have Watched):
1-16, 18, 19, 20, 21(2nd), 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51(1st & 2nd), 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 61, 62, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86. 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151(1st), 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 164, 165, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 177, 180, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 201, 202, 204, 205, 206, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 237, 239, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 260, 263, 266, 267, 268, 271, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 297, 298, 300(2D), 301, 302, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 351, 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 378, 379, 380, 383, 385, 386, 387, 388, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 402, 404, 405, 408, 409, 410, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 424, 425, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 437, 439, 441, 445, 446, 447, 448, 451, 453, 455, 456, 457, 459, 460, 461, 462, 465, 470, 475, 476, 478, 481, 482, 487, 490, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 503, 505, 512, 524, 525, 526, 528, 529, 530, 531, 539, 540, 543, 556, 565, 572, 578, 579, 580, 586, 596, 650, 664, 677

Previous Editions: 2,
Eclipse: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 23, 26, 33

“Empty your bladder of that bitter black urine you call coffee.” – The Tick

My HK movie reviews
My Amazon Reviews

#31 Duke Togo

Duke Togo

    Evil mind, evil sword.

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,903 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 March 2011 - 07:32 PM

I remember an Indian English teacher who thought that Americans were too removed from death and should have to (like he did) stay with the deceased in the house for a few days.

And it is hard not to agree with that. When my mom passed it only took them 20 minutes or so for them to remove her from my grandmother's house, and after that I didn't see her ashes until the funeral. At the time it seemed appropriate, we were all very emotional, but looking back it felt a bit premature. What you describe of India sounds like what I've heard of Thailand, and I figure this is the same for a lot of the East.

Funny about the crazy coroner, I know many horror films joke around about how at ease these guys are at work. :lol:

Don't sweat it Izo, this is an extremely rough watch. I have always been strongly against movies like Faces of Death, so this was a rather new element for me. I would never judge anyone for avoiding it, not even Criterion completists.

#32 Izo

Izo

    The Piano Has Been Drinking, Not Me

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,150 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 02 March 2011 - 08:32 PM

Don't sweat it Izo, this is an extremely rough watch. I have always been strongly against movies like Faces of Death, so this was a rather new element for me. I would never judge anyone for avoiding it, not even Criterion completists.


Oh I know, but being one of the biggest supporters of the Brakhage sets, I just wanted to point out that I hadn't had the guts for that one. I may try, but I won't force myself to sit through it.

The real centerpiece of the set is obviously Dog Star Man. It's in my top 100 films, and it may be a bit low in retrospect. Has anyone else watched it and love/hated/felt ambivalent about it?

#33 Duke Togo

Duke Togo

    Evil mind, evil sword.

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,903 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 March 2011 - 08:53 PM

I liked it, and it had the same hypnotic effect as some of Kenneth Anger's films for me. It didn't really grab me as hard as Anger though, and I think I felt a bit more taken by Brakhage's The Dante Quartet. I will try to watch Dog Star Man again sometime, this time shutting out all possible distractions like lights and such.

#34 Izo

Izo

    The Piano Has Been Drinking, Not Me

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,150 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 02 March 2011 - 08:58 PM

I found, especially at first, that the lack of sound was a major hurtle that I had to jump over, but once I did I was completely taken. Particularly by Dog Star Man and the hand-painted films, I really feel them on a strong emotional level.

#35 Duke Togo

Duke Togo

    Evil mind, evil sword.

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,903 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 March 2011 - 09:11 PM

And I had considered that too, it is eerily silent and that seems to make me restless.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users