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#1 Izo

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 01:43 PM

One of the most divisive actors in the history of cinema. People love him, and just as many people hate him. Obviously, you cannot deny that he was an icon, but was he a great - or even good - actor?

I'd argue that he was, when he felt like it. Probably 95% of the time he made a movie, he was playing a variation of himself. But the other 5% is really gold. His performance in The Searchers is possibly my favorite male performance in any classic Hollywood film. He's equally intense in Red River. His comedic timing in Rio Bravo, another personal favorite, is something that simply cannot be faked. His scenes with Angie Dickenson are pure gold. In a virtually actionless film like The Quiet Man, he played a calm man running away from a tortured past. John Ford pushed him more than any other director, probably. I defy anyone to watch She Wore a Yellow Ribbon and not be moved by Wayne's scene next to his wife's grave.

I love John Wayne, and I do feel he's fairly underrated as an actor. How about you?

#2 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 04:05 PM

I like John Wayne and thought he became a better actor as the years went by. I do think that John Ford usually got the best of his acting ability thought I think Howard Hawks also knew how to use him.

I certainly know of posters who have not liked John Wayne (where are you :lol:), but I find it hard not to like him in several of his films (especially the ones you have mentioned). Yes there have been a few films like Legend of the Lost, but I really did love his performance in True Grit as well the more I think about it.
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#3 littlefuzzy

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 07:19 AM

Is it necessarily bad to play yourself?

Nic Cage - well, yeah... He isn't a great actor - His films aren't just "Nic Cage playing a supernatural motorcycle rider", they are "Nic Cage PLAYING Nic Cage playing a supernatural motorcycle rider..."

There are quite a few actors who basically play themselves, but they still manage to do a pretty good job of it. It's more like "this is how I would be in real life, if I was actually a doctor, with these events happening to me."

Growing up, I was a sci-fi kid, and barring that, 80s comedy or action movies, so westerns weren't really my thing (although I loved The Lone Ranger, and Wild Wild West.) Sadly, I haven't seen that much John Wayne stuff, other than bits on saturday afternoon TV. The most recent JW film I've watched was The Shootist, and I thought it was an interesting cap to his carreer, as well as the iconic "gunfighter". At the time I watched it, I thought he was actually fighting cancer during filming (which made it doubly meaningful to me), I've since heard that this was erroneous.

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#4 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 04:00 PM

Is it necessarily bad to play yourself?
...


It's what I call the Chevy Chase syndrome.

I'm probably going to watch The Shootist (again) soon. Since he (if fuzzy is right) wasn't sick during it I will not look at it the same way one looks at Steve McQueen in The Hunter.
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#5 littlefuzzy

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:31 AM

According to Wikipedia (however accurate that is):

Contrary to popular belief, John Wayne did not have cancer when he made this film. His entire left lung and several ribs had been removed in surgery on 16 September 1964, and in 1969 he was declared cancer-free. It was not until 12 January 1979, almost three years after this movie had been filmed, that the disease was found to have returned.


So he had lung cancer in 1964, and then died of stomach cancer in 1979, both possibly related to nuclear fallout during the shooting of The Conqueror (1956) - shot in southwestern Utah, east of and downwind from southeastern Nevada where the government had tested nuclear weapons. Of course, the lung cancer could have been from his six-pack-a-day cigarette habit... The stomach cancer could have been related to that as well, or many other factors besides the potential fallout.

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#6 littlefuzzy

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:32 AM

It's what I call the Chevy Chase syndrome.

Some people (like Chevy) are fun to watch, even if they are playing themselves.

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#7 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 11:31 AM

According to Wikipedia (however accurate that is):


So he had lung cancer in 1964, and then died of stomach cancer in 1979, both possibly related to nuclear fallout during the shooting of The Conqueror (1956) - shot in southwestern Utah, east of and downwind from southeastern Nevada where the government had tested nuclear weapons. Of course, the lung cancer could have been from his six-pack-a-day cigarette habit... The stomach cancer could have been related to that as well, or many other factors besides the potential fallout.


After watching the extras on The Shootist last night it seems that he was not well during the shooting of The Shootist and missed several days and had to take it easy when he did work. An interesting note was that George C. Scott was offered the part as well (and he accepted if no script changes were made). No one was really happy with the ending though (
Spoiler
).

Quite an enjoyable film though. I thought Wayne's performance was among his better ones (though I don't think all of it was acting though). This was the first time I had seen this movie (not sure why I had thought I had seen it before) and it works well as a last film as well as a culmination of his career. Did anyone have any issues with the beginning with the usage of stock footage? It would have been nice to see a bigger role for Jimmy Stewart though.
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#8 Izo

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 03:19 PM

Did anyone have any issues with the beginning with the usage of stock footage?


Yes, though I can only name one film - Soderbergh's The Limey, where I think using footage of the actor from an older film works.

#9 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:11 PM

After rewatching True Grit a few days ago I still feel this is one of his best roles (not necessarily film, though I currently have in my top 100, I might move to my top 200 instead). His performance is pitch perfect and is my favorite aspect of the film. Now if only the sequel was as good. Interesting to read that some (Halliwell's Film Guide) refer his Oscar in this as a sentimental one (like Connery's in The Untouchables, another film I'm quite fond of), but damn if it didn't fit. From the mix of inebriation and caustic surliness it felt quite natural to me. There are few scenes I like as much when Cogburn takes the reins to ride against Ned Pepper and his gang after a great comment from Robert Duvall.

I'm still wondering about Glen Campbell's performance in that though as the Texican LaBoeuf. Well that and the lead-in song, eek (yes Glen Campbell). I think Kim Darby seems to have the most controversy though with a dichotomy of reviews either pro or against.
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#10 Izo

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:24 PM

I think that virtually every performance in the film is really atrocious - aside from obviously Wayne, who is fantastic, and Robert Duvall - but I'm fond of the film. It simply could've been better with better casting choices.

#11 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:33 PM

I think that virtually every performance in the film is really atrocious - aside from obviously Wayne, who is fantastic, and Robert Duvall - but I'm fond of the film. It simply could've been better with better casting choices.


I don't quite agree on that, I really only think Campbell's performance is bad and some scenes with Kim Darby (though I found her convincing in some scenes since she was supposed to be annoying; she reminded me of a young Disney character actor :)). I think aside from these two casting choices the only other issue is the plot which could have been a bit more something :D.

Dennis Hopper is good as Moon in his tiny role. John Fiedler was perfect as Lawyer Daggett. Jeff Corey was OK (this could have been improved, but was not far from reality though we do expect a little hyper-reality in our villians) and others like Jeremy Slate were decent.
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#12 Izo

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:37 PM

Kim Darby strolls through the film like she is auditioning for The Parent Trap. I really hate her character.

Ever see White Dog, Master? "This is the hand that helped Duke win the Oscar!"

#13 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 04:59 PM

Kim Darby strolls through the film like she is auditioning for The Parent Trap. I really hate her character.

Ever see White Dog, Master? "This is the hand that helped Duke win the Oscar!"


Well she reminds me of The Parent Trap kid(s) :D. On a side note I notice she is in Better Off Dead, now that is a film I haven't seen since the 1980s.

Rio Lobo is another film where I liked his performance and the film (even though it is another version of Rio Bravo, El Dorado), but didn't think all the supporting actors were quite up to it.

I own White Dog, but have not seen it yet.
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My Criterion Collection (408; I Own and Have Watched):
1-16, 18, 19, 20, 21(2nd), 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51(1st & 2nd), 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 61, 62, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86. 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151(1st), 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 164, 165, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 177, 180, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 201, 202, 204, 205, 206, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 237, 239, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 260, 263, 266, 267, 268, 271, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 297, 298, 300(2D), 301, 302, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 351, 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 378, 379, 380, 383, 385, 386, 387, 388, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 402, 404, 405, 408, 409, 410, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 424, 425, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 437, 439, 441, 445, 446, 447, 448, 451, 453, 455, 456, 457, 459, 460, 461, 462, 465, 470, 475, 476, 478, 481, 482, 487, 490, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 503, 505, 512, 524, 525, 526, 528, 529, 530, 531, 539, 540, 543, 556, 565, 572, 578, 579, 580, 586, 596, 650, 664, 677

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#14 Izo

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:05 PM

Rio Bravo is the film in that "trilogy" that I haven't seen. I quite like El Dorado, though.

#15 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:09 PM

Rio Bravo is the film in that "trilogy" that I haven't seen. I quite like El Dorado, though.


:jawdrop: (hee hee have to use this smiley now and then)

If you like El Dorado, I can't see how you could not like Rio Bravo. Tarantino used to use that film as a gauge to determine if a girlfriend was relationship worthy (didn't keep many realtionships though). Among my favorite westerns, but I also like El Dorado quite a bit too. I think those two would be interesting to watch back-to-back.

Here's a question: what is among your favorite non-western John Wayne performances? The Quiet Man? The Green Berets? :D
Under Construction:
My Criterion Collection (408; I Own and Have Watched):
1-16, 18, 19, 20, 21(2nd), 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51(1st & 2nd), 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 61, 62, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86. 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151(1st), 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 164, 165, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 177, 180, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 201, 202, 204, 205, 206, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 237, 239, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 260, 263, 266, 267, 268, 271, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 297, 298, 300(2D), 301, 302, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 351, 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 378, 379, 380, 383, 385, 386, 387, 388, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 402, 404, 405, 408, 409, 410, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 424, 425, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 437, 439, 441, 445, 446, 447, 448, 451, 453, 455, 456, 457, 459, 460, 461, 462, 465, 470, 475, 476, 478, 481, 482, 487, 490, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 503, 505, 512, 524, 525, 526, 528, 529, 530, 531, 539, 540, 543, 556, 565, 572, 578, 579, 580, 586, 596, 650, 664, 677

Previous Editions: 2,
Eclipse: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 23, 26, 33

“Empty your bladder of that bitter black urine you call coffee.” – The Tick

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#16 Izo

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:12 PM

Er...I meant Rio Lobo. Rio Bravo is in my top 10.

#17 Izo

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:12 PM

Here's a question: what is among your favorite non-western John Wayne performances? The Quiet Man? The Green Berets? :D


Depends. My favorite performance of his or film overall?

#18 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:14 PM

Depends. My favorite performance of his or film overall?


I thought you made a boo boo on Rio [insert the name here except for Grande].

Performance since this is the Wayne thread :D or you could do the dichotomy of performance versus film best.
Under Construction:
My Criterion Collection (408; I Own and Have Watched):
1-16, 18, 19, 20, 21(2nd), 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51(1st & 2nd), 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 61, 62, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86. 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151(1st), 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 164, 165, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 177, 180, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 201, 202, 204, 205, 206, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 237, 239, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 260, 263, 266, 267, 268, 271, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 297, 298, 300(2D), 301, 302, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 351, 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 378, 379, 380, 383, 385, 386, 387, 388, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 402, 404, 405, 408, 409, 410, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 424, 425, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 437, 439, 441, 445, 446, 447, 448, 451, 453, 455, 456, 457, 459, 460, 461, 462, 465, 470, 475, 476, 478, 481, 482, 487, 490, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 503, 505, 512, 524, 525, 526, 528, 529, 530, 531, 539, 540, 543, 556, 565, 572, 578, 579, 580, 586, 596, 650, 664, 677

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#19 Izo

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 05:20 PM

Allan Dwan's Sands of Iwo Jima. John Wayne plays John Wayne, and he never really did it better.

#20 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 12:21 PM

Another movie recently watched where I found a fun John Wayne performance was in The Train Robbers directed by Burt Kennedy. I think the movie has a few issues with pacing and storyline and one huge miscasting with the Ann-Margaret character. Her acting ability makes me wince a bit. But even then Wayne seems to have great timing, great pitch and performance (ultimately playing himself) that I wish the movie itself was a bit better. I love all the side characters especially Rod Taylor and Ben Johnson (Ricardo Montalban was criminally underused in this film) and Waynes dialog with them work for me.
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My Criterion Collection (408; I Own and Have Watched):
1-16, 18, 19, 20, 21(2nd), 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51(1st & 2nd), 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 61, 62, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86. 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151(1st), 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 164, 165, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 177, 180, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 201, 202, 204, 205, 206, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 237, 239, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 260, 263, 266, 267, 268, 271, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 297, 298, 300(2D), 301, 302, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 351, 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 378, 379, 380, 383, 385, 386, 387, 388, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 402, 404, 405, 408, 409, 410, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 424, 425, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 437, 439, 441, 445, 446, 447, 448, 451, 453, 455, 456, 457, 459, 460, 461, 462, 465, 470, 475, 476, 478, 481, 482, 487, 490, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 503, 505, 512, 524, 525, 526, 528, 529, 530, 531, 539, 540, 543, 556, 565, 572, 578, 579, 580, 586, 596, 650, 664, 677

Previous Editions: 2,
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“Empty your bladder of that bitter black urine you call coffee.” – The Tick

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