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Peckinpah, Sam


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#1 Duke Togo

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Posted 20 February 2009 - 06:30 PM

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Sam Peckinpah
Legendary American film maker Sam Peckinpah made his mark with The Wild Bunch in 1969 with its contemplative view on violence within our society. He has since established that staple of exploring the dark parts of humanity in later films, earning the moniker, "Bloody Sam". Problems with alcohol and drugs haunted his career, leading to plenty of drama and notoriety within Hollywood, perhaps exposing a true rawness within his own life to match the rawness in his films. Bad behavior or not, his films will forever stand tall for their hauntingly brutal honesty of what man is capable of.

Recommended Films:
(3) The Getaway (1972)
(2) The Wild Bunch (1969)
(2) Straw Dogs (1971)
(1) Junior Bonner (1972)
(1) Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia (1974)
(1) Cross of Iron (1977)

Save For Last:
(1) The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970)

#2 Duke Togo

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:01 PM

The Getaway (1972) - 9.5/10. Sam Peckinpah has always had a lurid vision for violent imagery and how to place it in a well articulated environment. While more tame than Straw Dogs and The Wild Bunch, his directing of this basic bank robbery film explores fully the characters involved while keeping the storyline upfront and closest to the viewers' attention. Steve McQueen once again delves into the character, whether it be good or bad, with such devotion it's hard to see him as the brave good guy (such as in Bullitt) or the devious, evil felon (as in this film). Filled with chases, gun fights, and everything an action film fan could want, this is one film that should be required viewing for most interested in either, the actor, director, or genre.

For me this is an underrated Peckinpah (with critics; with the masses it was quite popular). Have you seen the other McQueen/Peckinpah combo Junior Bonner which came out before The Getaway? If that had been successful there might not have been this movie :). But if you haven't seen it I would recommend it, but it is more of a character study than an action oriented film.

I haven't but it will be going on the flix list. I've been needing to see more Peckinpah and it's been so long since The Wild Bunch I can barely remember it.

Mike, if you haven't already seen it you should look up Bring Me The Head Of Alfredo Garcia (1974). It had a rawness that reminded me a lot of Straw Dogs, and I would probably say it is my favorite Peckinpah, almost tied with Straw Dogs. I did enjoy Cross of Iron, The Wild Bunch, and The Getaway quite a bit, but not as much as these two. I maybe could've done without The Ballad of Cable Hogue, quite silly that one, though I realize it was meant as tongue-in-cheek.

#3 mikesncc1701

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 06:49 PM

I've heard of Alfredo Garcia. Peckinpah is a great director, but his films for some reason have always evaded me as I get interested in something entirely different and forget about him. Seems to happen a lot actually. There's too many things to see out there.

#4 Izo

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 01:00 PM

I'm no Peckinpah scholar by any means, but of all the films I've seen the only one that I thought was truly great was Ride the High Country. It lacks most of the violence that Peckinpah was known for, but it makes for a really great eulogy to the classical western. Randolph Scott and especially Joel McCrea turn in what are possibly the best performances in either of their careers.

My main gripe with Peckinpah's films - The Wild Bunch in particular because of it's reputation - is the uneasy relationship of the director's stylistic modernity with very classical dramatic scenes. To me, it creates a clash that makes the films seem clunky and off.

#5 Lawrence

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:35 PM

Izo have you ever seen The Ballad of Cable Houge? It's by far the most under rated of Sam's films. Quite lovely.

Edit: I just noticed that in the original post we have The Ballad of Cable Hogue as a save for last. Surely some mistake, Convoy, The Osterman Weekend and Killer Elite are the real 'fan only' films by Pekinpah in my opinion along with a few early films which is normally quite typical.

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#6 Izo

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 03:26 PM

I haven't, but I'll check it out at some point. That's with Jason Robards, right?

#7 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:24 PM

Izo have you ever seen The Ballad of Cable Houge? It's by far the most under rated of Sam's films. Quite lovely.

Edit: I just noticed that in the original post we have The Ballad of Cable Hogue as a save for last. Surely some mistake, Convoy, The Osterman Weekend and Killer Elite are the real 'fan only' films by Pekinpah in my opinion along with a few early films which is normally quite typical.


I'll take that as a recommendation. I almost watched it this weekend (trying to finish off some boxsets) but ended up going for a Criterion (then a HK film, but we won't talk about Stoner). I'll try to watch this soon then. Lawrence, is it a bit like Junior Bonner (of which I'm a fan)?
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#8 Lawrence

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:25 PM

That's the one, for Sam it's quite a gentle film. It's even edited in a fairly conventional way. As I say personal favourite, and I adore Pekinpah.

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#9 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:25 AM

Izo have you ever seen The Ballad of Cable Houge? It's by far the most under rated of Sam's films. Quite lovely.

Edit: I just noticed that in the original post we have The Ballad of Cable Hogue as a save for last. Surely some mistake, Convoy, The Osterman Weekend and Killer Elite are the real 'fan only' films by Pekinpah in my opinion along with a few early films which is normally quite typical.


I'm going to have to agree with Lawrence here (and maybe we should modify the top post). I wished I had check this thread after I watched The Ballad of Cable Hogue (I checked here because I had recently watch Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia), but I'll agree that it is a bit underrated (it is in the New York Times top 1000 films; the 100 essential westerns on the IMDB boards and in the 501 Must See Movies book).

So far none of the nine films I have seen from Peckinpah I would consider less than good, though I have not seen Convoy, The Osterman Weekend or The Killer Elite.

But since I have now seen Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia for the second time it is much easier for me to discuss that film. What are your thoughts on this one? It seems to have a dichotomy of opinions (for example Ebert loving it and eventually making it a Great Movie; Leonard Maltin not). While it has a slower pace, this is nothing new for Peckinpah at this point in his career.

The first time I had watched the film (circa 1992) was because of Roger Ebert's review of the film and, of course, the name. Usually a second watch will etch a film in my head for the rest of my life (with exceptions like Freejack which I know I've watched more than once but cannot remember much from the film -- weird though I get vague flashbacks of Mick Jagger in a tank).

Warren Oates is quite good as Bennie and his performance fuels the film though I liked Isela Vega as Elita as well. She is still acting to this day (several performances in this year). Some of the supporting performances are interesting as well. I loved the scene where the one henchman (Gig Young) is gunning down several in his path. Look at that smile:

Posted Image

I'm not sure if I love the film enough to call it a great film. Peckinpah was a bit stereotypical in the action scenes, sometimes a bit too plodding with the elements (while sometimes it worked quite well as hen Elita and Bennie are together or when Bennie is talking to the head). Sometimes you get a misogynistic feeling with his attitude towards the women characters.
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#10 Lawrence

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:13 PM

^
Master here's what i thought of BMtHoAG.

You gots to see The Killer Elite, it's so bad it's good. I really need to see Convoy again, plus I have If They Move Kill 'Em still sitting on the shelf for me to read.

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#11 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 04:29 PM

^
Master here's what i thought of BMtHoAG.

You gots to see The Killer Elite, it's so bad it's good. I really need to see Convoy again, plus I have If They Move Kill 'Em still sitting on the shelf for me to read.


It's a good read (should have posted here :D).

"Plus we never even get to see the title character." -- well technically we do get to see his head in a locket. But its the perfect amount of time :D. He is more a legend than an actual character so his omnipresence in the film is even more stated. Plus it helps mark the dalliance with Elita as well and makes her and Bernie's relationship even more marked. Bernie sure forgives her easy, but then he really does not have any illusions to her past as well.

But yeah Bernie is a role I don't see anyone else playing but Warren Oates.

The cars are awesome in this. More realistic because of how bad they are. They are meant to be hit a few times, be ridden on by boys needing a short ride, and aren't meant to be given a wash.
Under Construction:
My Criterion Collection (408; I Own and Have Watched):
1-16, 18, 19, 20, 21(2nd), 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51(1st & 2nd), 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 61, 62, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86. 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151(1st), 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 164, 165, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 177, 180, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 201, 202, 204, 205, 206, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 237, 239, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 260, 263, 266, 267, 268, 271, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 297, 298, 300(2D), 301, 302, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 351, 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 378, 379, 380, 383, 385, 386, 387, 388, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 402, 404, 405, 408, 409, 410, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 424, 425, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 437, 439, 441, 445, 446, 447, 448, 451, 453, 455, 456, 457, 459, 460, 461, 462, 465, 470, 475, 476, 478, 481, 482, 487, 490, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 503, 505, 512, 524, 525, 526, 528, 529, 530, 531, 539, 540, 543, 556, 565, 572, 578, 579, 580, 586, 596, 650, 664, 677

Previous Editions: 2,
Eclipse: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 23, 26, 33

“Empty your bladder of that bitter black urine you call coffee.” – The Tick

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#12 Lawrence

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:16 PM

It's a good read (should have posted here :D).

"Plus we never even get to see the title character." -- well technically we do get to see his head in a locket. But its the perfect amount of time :D. He is more a legend than an actual character so his omnipresence in the film is even more stated. Plus it helps mark the dalliance with Elita as well and makes her and Bernie's relationship even more marked. Bernie sure forgives her easy, but then he really does not have any illusions to her past as well.

But yeah Bernie is a role I don't see anyone else playing but Warren Oates.

The cars are awesome in this. More realistic because of how bad they are. They are meant to be hit a few times, be ridden on by boys needing a short ride, and aren't meant to be given a wash.


Yeah I'm just never too sure about posting big blocks of text here from my blog. Whenever I've done that in the past it feels like I'm closing a topic for discussion rather than opening one.

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#13 masterofoneinchpunch

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:29 PM

Yeah I'm just never too sure about posting big blocks of text here from my blog. Whenever I've done that in the past it feels like I'm closing a topic for discussion rather than opening one.


I always feel big blocks of text make it easier to pick, I mean discuss an essay easier. Of course I can also quote tag or hand quote the selected areas, so it is not a huge issue.

Lawrence for fun do you have an order of preference for the Peckinpah films (or you could put great/good/mediocre/bad order)?

While it is technically not a mistake, one thing you should never do which Bernie does in the film when he is sitting down on a bed (while talking and unloading/loading his weapon) is put a loaded gun into his pants section while he was sitting down. It was pointed towards his crotch (even with blanks you do not want to do this). Any career criminal should now that (not saying his character is; though he seems to do quite well with the gunplay) and you never have the fun pointed at any part of your body no matter what (one of the biggest mistakes in many shooting scenes is bringing up a gun and having its muzzle point at a point of your body before aiming it to shoot). Seriously just don't put the gun in the front of your pants an anytime (especially when sitting).
Under Construction:
My Criterion Collection (408; I Own and Have Watched):
1-16, 18, 19, 20, 21(2nd), 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51(1st & 2nd), 52, 52, 53, 53, 55, 56, 57, 58, 61, 62, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86. 87, 88, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 105, 108, 109, 110, 111, 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 121, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 129, 130, 131, 133, 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141, 143, 145, 146, 147, 148, 149, 150, 151(1st), 157, 158, 159, 160, 161, 164, 165, 167, 168, 169, 170, 171, 172, 173, 174, 175, 177, 180, 182, 183, 184, 185, 186, 187, 188, 189, 190, 193, 194, 195, 196, 197, 198, 199, 201, 202, 204, 205, 206, 208, 209, 210, 211, 212, 213, 214, 216, 217, 218, 219, 220, 221, 222, 224, 226, 227, 231, 232, 233, 234, 235, 237, 239, 239, 240, 241, 242, 243, 244, 245, 246, 247, 248, 249, 250, 251, 252, 253, 254, 255, 256, 260, 263, 266, 267, 268, 271, 273, 274, 275, 276, 277, 280, 281, 282, 283, 284, 285, 286, 288, 289, 290, 291, 292, 293, 294, 297, 298, 300(2D), 301, 302, 304, 305, 306, 308, 309, 310, 311, 312, 313, 314, 315, 316, 317, 318, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324, 325, 326, 327, 328, 329, 330, 331, 332, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 341, 342, 343, 344, 345, 346, 347, 348, 349, 351, 352, 353, 354, 357, 358, 359, 362, 363, 364, 365, 366, 367, 368, 369, 370, 371, 372, 373, 374, 375, 376, 378, 379, 380, 383, 385, 386, 387, 388, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 397, 398, 399, 402, 404, 405, 408, 409, 410, 412, 413, 414, 415, 416, 417, 418, 419, 420, 421, 422, 424, 425, 427, 428, 429, 430, 431, 432, 433, 434, 435, 437, 439, 441, 445, 446, 447, 448, 451, 453, 455, 456, 457, 459, 460, 461, 462, 465, 470, 475, 476, 478, 481, 482, 487, 490, 497, 498, 499, 500, 501, 503, 505, 512, 524, 525, 526, 528, 529, 530, 531, 539, 540, 543, 556, 565, 572, 578, 579, 580, 586, 596, 650, 664, 677

Previous Editions: 2,
Eclipse: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 12, 13, 15, 16, 23, 26, 33

“Empty your bladder of that bitter black urine you call coffee.” – The Tick

My HK movie reviews
My Amazon Reviews

#14 Lawrence

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 11:30 AM

I always feel big blocks of text make it easier to pick, I mean discuss an essay easier. Of course I can also quote tag or hand quote the selected areas, so it is not a huge issue.

Lawrence for fun do you have an order of preference for the Peckinpah films (or you could put great/good/mediocre/bad order)?

While it is technically not a mistake, one thing you should never do which Bernie does in the film when he is sitting down on a bed (while talking and unloading/loading his weapon) is put a loaded gun into his pants section while he was sitting down. It was pointed towards his crotch (even with blanks you do not want to do this). Any career criminal should now that (not saying his character is; though he seems to do quite well with the gunplay) and you never have the fun pointed at any part of your body no matter what (one of the biggest mistakes in many shooting scenes is bringing up a gun and having its muzzle point at a point of your body before aiming it to shoot). Seriously just don't put the gun in the front of your pants an anytime (especially when sitting).


Peckinpah in no particular order for me is:-

Essential
Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia
The Getaway
Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid
Straw Dogs
The Ballad of Cable Hogue
The Wild Bunch

Great, but not his best
Cross of Iron
Junior Bonner
Major Dundee
Ride the High Country

Fans only
The Osterman Weekend
The Killer Elite
Convoy


I wouldn't even touch a gun let alone stuff one in with one of most treasured possessions.

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